[PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Leandro Roggerone]

Hi guys , I received a very old del pe 2950 box.
Fortunately it has 64 GB and a double power supply, so i'm thinking about
using it with pve.
After confirm with dell support about storage capacity:
Max physical storage support is 2TB.
Max virtual storage support is also 2TB.
##
I was reading on previous emails at this mail list , about storage:
 "putting the controller in JBOD mode
and install directly with ZFS software RAID."

I always thought that raid hardware controller was the best option but ,
perhaps I can give it a try to ZFS software RAID with this old server  ....
what do you think ?
I have a bunch of 3.5" with odd capacities  unused drives.
I readed that zfs can merge them to get a more efficient use.
What about hot replace / remove or insert a new drive ?
Will it work without service disruption in production environments ?

Regards,
Leandro.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Libre
de virus. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Marco Gaiarin]

Mandi! Leandro Roggerone
  In chel di` si favelave...

> What about hot replace / remove or insert a new drive ?
> Will it work without service disruption in production environments ?

AFAIk no.

If i remember well, Linux SCSI/SATA subsystem have support for the hot-swap,
but need also the support for the controller/cage/backpane/...

So, basically, switching to JBOD/Passthroug, you lost host-swap.

-- 
dott. Marco Gaiarin				        GNUPG Key ID: 240A3D66
  Associazione ``La Nostra Famiglia''          http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/
  Polo FVG   -   Via della Bontà, 7 - 33078   -   San Vito al Tagliamento (PN)
  marco.gaiarin(at)lanostrafamiglia.it   t +39-0434-842711   f +39-0434-842797

		Dona il 5 PER MILLE a LA NOSTRA FAMIGLIA!
      http://www.lanostrafamiglia.it/index.php/it/sostienici/5x1000
	(cf 00307430132, categoria ONLUS oppure RICERCA SANITARIA)

Re: [PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Roland]

shouldn't it be possible to replace existing controller with
crossflashed perc h310 + sff-8484/sff-8087 cable  and you're done with
the disk / hotswap limitation ?

roland

Am 19.04.21 um 15:38 schrieb Marco Gaiarin:
> Mandi! Leandro Roggerone
>    In chel di` si favelave...
>
>> What about hot replace / remove or insert a new drive ?
>> Will it work without service disruption in production environments ?
> AFAIk no.
>
> If i remember well, Linux SCSI/SATA subsystem have support for the hot-swap,
> but need also the support for the controller/cage/backpane/...
>
> So, basically, switching to JBOD/Passthroug, you lost host-swap.
>

Re: [PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Michel 'ic' Luczak]

Hi,

> Max physical storage support is 2TB.
> Max virtual storage support is also 2TB.

I’m using a PE2950 with the stock SAS RAID card and 6 x 4TB SATA using uSATA adapters (small boards that clip in the back of SATA drives to “make them SAS” (over simplifying things but you will need those)). There is no real limitation, you may only run into issues with 512e/512n/etc… but up to 4 or 6 TB you should be fine.

More recently I used very modern 8TB SAS drives in an R410 without backplane and I had to cut the 3.3V power line to the drives because on modern drives it’s turning them off.

Dell support knows only what was written in the manual at the date of release of the server.

Regards, Michel

Re: [PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Kyle Schmitt]

I run on R610s, so about the same generation I think.  I use the
hardware raid for mirrored boot drive only, and NFS over 10G for VM
storage, which is on a seperate system running FreeBSD + ZFS.

But for your case: the general rule for any storage system is don't
mix.  You pick one and only one: hardware raid, software raid, zfs,
ceph, etc.  The exceptions are for systems you almost definitely won't
be using like luster and gluster.

You can still do hotplug with JBOD mode, at least on the dell hardware
I've used.  I have no idea if it's officially supported or not.  I do
know that I sometimes have to use the raid tools to bring in a new
drive when it's NOT in JBOD mode.

In the 6ish years I've run ZFS I've only had one drive fail (pure
luck, not skill), and it was trivial to swap out and replace.

--Kyle

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 7:59 AM Leandro Roggerone
<leandro@tecnetmza.com.ar> wrote:
>
> Hi guys , I received a very old del pe 2950 box.
> Fortunately it has 64 GB and a double power supply, so i'm thinking about
> using it with pve.
> After confirm with dell support about storage capacity:
> Max physical storage support is 2TB.
> Max virtual storage support is also 2TB.
> ##
> I was reading on previous emails at this mail list , about storage:
>  "putting the controller in JBOD mode
> and install directly with ZFS software RAID."
>
> I always thought that raid hardware controller was the best option but ,
> perhaps I can give it a try to ZFS software RAID with this old server  ....
> what do you think ?
> I have a bunch of 3.5" with odd capacities  unused drives.
> I readed that zfs can merge them to get a more efficient use.
> What about hot replace / remove or insert a new drive ?
> Will it work without service disruption in production environments ?
>
> Regards,
> Leandro.
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> Libre
> de virus. www.avast.com
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> _______________________________________________
> pve-user mailing list
> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com
> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
>

Re: [PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Dimitri Alexandris]

I have an old Dell 1950 with one cpu (2 disks).  Was 1+1G ram, added 16+16
and now have 34G.  Two power supplies.

1-  Never bothered to change SAS controller mode.
2-  SATA disks (up to 2T of course) work perfectly, never used transposers.
3-  First worked with an internal SSD (at internal SATA port, plus an addon
power cable) for OS (always ZFS) + 2 SATA disks (ZFS raid) for data.  3
years, no problems.
4-  Now i bought 2 SAS 1T, with OS on them, and also works fine.
5-  Hot plugging disks is working fine.  I actually increased capacity with
bigger disks without stopping anything this way.  Had 500G SATA before 1T
SAS diks.

I configure the 2 eths in OVS (openvswitch) bond mode, with several VLANS
and internal networks (OVS IntPorts).

In your case, with many SAS disks you will be fine with any configuration,
e.g.:

3+3 x 2T = 6T ZFS raid, OS + data, the fastest combination, or
5+1 ZFS raidz, 10T space, with best capacity, or
4+2 ZFS raidz2, 8T space, also big, and safer.

Do yourself a favour, and buy some decent SAS disks, at 7200rpm are very
cheap.


On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 6:08 PM Kyle Schmitt <kyleaschmitt@gmail.com> wrote:

> I run on R610s, so about the same generation I think.  I use the
> hardware raid for mirrored boot drive only, and NFS over 10G for VM
> storage, which is on a seperate system running FreeBSD + ZFS.
>
> But for your case: the general rule for any storage system is don't
> mix.  You pick one and only one: hardware raid, software raid, zfs,
> ceph, etc.  The exceptions are for systems you almost definitely won't
> be using like luster and gluster.
>
> You can still do hotplug with JBOD mode, at least on the dell hardware
> I've used.  I have no idea if it's officially supported or not.  I do
> know that I sometimes have to use the raid tools to bring in a new
> drive when it's NOT in JBOD mode.
>
> In the 6ish years I've run ZFS I've only had one drive fail (pure
> luck, not skill), and it was trivial to swap out and replace.
>
> --Kyle
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 7:59 AM Leandro Roggerone
> <leandro@tecnetmza.com.ar> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys , I received a very old del pe 2950 box.
> > Fortunately it has 64 GB and a double power supply, so i'm thinking about
> > using it with pve.
> > After confirm with dell support about storage capacity:
> > Max physical storage support is 2TB.
> > Max virtual storage support is also 2TB.
> > ##
> > I was reading on previous emails at this mail list , about storage:
> >  "putting the controller in JBOD mode
> > and install directly with ZFS software RAID."
> >
> > I always thought that raid hardware controller was the best option but ,
> > perhaps I can give it a try to ZFS software RAID with this old server
> ....
> > what do you think ?
> > I have a bunch of 3.5" with odd capacities  unused drives.
> > I readed that zfs can merge them to get a more efficient use.
> > What about hot replace / remove or insert a new drive ?
> > Will it work without service disruption in production environments ?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Leandro.
> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > Libre
> > de virus. www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > _______________________________________________
> > pve-user mailing list
> > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com
> > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> pve-user mailing list
> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com
> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
>
>

Re: [PVE-User] get the most of storage for a very old dell pe 2950.

[Leandro Roggerone]

Thank you guys.
I will try to buy 6 new drives.
Then I will let you know how it goes.
Regards.
Leandro.

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
Libre
de virus. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

El lun, 19 abr 2021 a las 17:21, Dimitri Alexandris (<d.alexandris@gmail.com>)
escribió:

> I have an old Dell 1950 with one cpu (2 disks).  Was 1+1G ram, added 16+16
> and now have 34G.  Two power supplies.
>
> 1-  Never bothered to change SAS controller mode.
> 2-  SATA disks (up to 2T of course) work perfectly, never used transposers.
> 3-  First worked with an internal SSD (at internal SATA port, plus an addon
> power cable) for OS (always ZFS) + 2 SATA disks (ZFS raid) for data.  3
> years, no problems.
> 4-  Now i bought 2 SAS 1T, with OS on them, and also works fine.
> 5-  Hot plugging disks is working fine.  I actually increased capacity with
> bigger disks without stopping anything this way.  Had 500G SATA before 1T
> SAS diks.
>
> I configure the 2 eths in OVS (openvswitch) bond mode, with several VLANS
> and internal networks (OVS IntPorts).
>
> In your case, with many SAS disks you will be fine with any configuration,
> e.g.:
>
> 3+3 x 2T = 6T ZFS raid, OS + data, the fastest combination, or
> 5+1 ZFS raidz, 10T space, with best capacity, or
> 4+2 ZFS raidz2, 8T space, also big, and safer.
>
> Do yourself a favour, and buy some decent SAS disks, at 7200rpm are very
> cheap.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 6:08 PM Kyle Schmitt <kyleaschmitt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I run on R610s, so about the same generation I think.  I use the
> > hardware raid for mirrored boot drive only, and NFS over 10G for VM
> > storage, which is on a seperate system running FreeBSD + ZFS.
> >
> > But for your case: the general rule for any storage system is don't
> > mix.  You pick one and only one: hardware raid, software raid, zfs,
> > ceph, etc.  The exceptions are for systems you almost definitely won't
> > be using like luster and gluster.
> >
> > You can still do hotplug with JBOD mode, at least on the dell hardware
> > I've used.  I have no idea if it's officially supported or not.  I do
> > know that I sometimes have to use the raid tools to bring in a new
> > drive when it's NOT in JBOD mode.
> >
> > In the 6ish years I've run ZFS I've only had one drive fail (pure
> > luck, not skill), and it was trivial to swap out and replace.
> >
> > --Kyle
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 7:59 AM Leandro Roggerone
> > <leandro@tecnetmza.com.ar> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi guys , I received a very old del pe 2950 box.
> > > Fortunately it has 64 GB and a double power supply, so i'm thinking
> about
> > > using it with pve.
> > > After confirm with dell support about storage capacity:
> > > Max physical storage support is 2TB.
> > > Max virtual storage support is also 2TB.
> > > ##
> > > I was reading on previous emails at this mail list , about storage:
> > >  "putting the controller in JBOD mode
> > > and install directly with ZFS software RAID."
> > >
> > > I always thought that raid hardware controller was the best option but
> ,
> > > perhaps I can give it a try to ZFS software RAID with this old server
> > ....
> > > what do you think ?
> > > I have a bunch of 3.5" with odd capacities  unused drives.
> > > I readed that zfs can merge them to get a more efficient use.
> > > What about hot replace / remove or insert a new drive ?
> > > Will it work without service disruption in production environments ?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Leandro.
> > >
> > > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> > >
> > > Libre
> > > de virus. www.avast.com
> > > <
> >
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> > >
> > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > pve-user mailing list
> > > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com
> > > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pve-user mailing list
> > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com
> > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> pve-user mailing list
> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com
> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
>
>