* Re: [PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 [not found] <mailman.3.1618135201.14860.pve-user@lists.proxmox.com> @ 2021-04-11 22:43 ` Oleksii Tokovenko 2021-04-13 8:44 ` Piviul 0 siblings, 1 reply; 2+ messages in thread From: Oleksii Tokovenko @ 2021-04-11 22:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pve-user unsibscribe нд, 11 квіт. 2021 о 13:00 <pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com> пише: > Send pve-user mailing list submissions to > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pve-user-owner@lists.proxmox.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pve-user digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - Requesting > Criticism/Advice? (Lindsay Mathieson) > 2. PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson) > 3. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Arjen) > 4. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:28:50 +1000 > From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> > To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > Subject: Re: [PVE-User] Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - > Requesting Criticism/Advice? > Message-ID: <e92b8b56-e89f-928d-a3c8-7b423e334cf5@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 10/04/2021 5:10 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote: > > Don't expect to be able to backup the PBS container with 4TB to a 2TB > external drive. > > I only passed 2TB through and the actual backup data comes to 1.3TB > > > The Datastore of a PSB does not compress much further and Proxmox VE > Backup will only backup virtual disks and not mountpoints or storages > passed from host, if I understand correctly. > > > I wondered that. Will be testing. > > > I suggest adding a virtual disk of 2TB to the PBS container (and format > it with ext4) which can be backed up by the Proxmox VE Backup. > > > Certainly a possibility. > > > I also wondered if it was practical to attach an external disk to PBS as > a Datastore, then detach it. A bit more manual, but doable. > > > > I would also run the PBS container (with virtual disk) on the cluster > instead on separate hardware which is a single point of failure. The local > PBS would be then just as reliable as your cluster. > > > I want to keep the storage separate from the cluster, in that regard the > local storage is a single point of failure, hence the need for offsite > storage as well :) > > > > > > Regarding safeness: I suggest doing a automated disaster recovery every > week to make sure it works as expected. Or at least partially, like > restoring the PBS from an external drive. > > > I'll definitely be testing restore options to check that it works. > > > Regarding practicality: I would have a remote PBS sync with your local > PBS instead of moving physical disks (but you mentioned before that that > was not really possible). > > > Alas :( > > > Perhaps I could do a backup on site, then physically move it offsite and > attach it to a offsite PBS server and then sync it remotely - > incremental backups over the net would be doable. > > > nb. Our NAS died, hence my increased investigation of this :) Definitely > want to go with a more open and targeted solution this time, the NAS was > a good appliance, but inflexible. > > Thanks! > > -- > Lindsay > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:36:23 +1000 > From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> > To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > Subject: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's > Message-ID: <ddef627d-5c5f-1358-4a9f-196ef5868e6e@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be > incrementally backed up? > > > Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's > > -- > Lindsay > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:43:43 +0000 > From: Arjen <leesteken@protonmail.ch> > To: Proxmox VE user list <pve-user@lists.proxmox.com> > Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's > Message-ID: > > <yl4Q_yt8NBMZUuS35KwBK-5RtAEv6V0dJTE77Hp8lW3GAxzIAOU2ErfF0CMHI9y8NjUQKF5TBtgSGhQIaE3p5Sy-7ltAFX8NmbZJoSyHVAk=@ > protonmail.ch> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > On Saturday, April 10th, 2021 at 15:36, Lindsay Mathieson < > lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be > > > > incrementally backed up? > > > > Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's > > Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is > deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduces > the writes to the server. An administration of changed virtual disk blocks > is kept for running VMs, which only reduces the reads from VMs that have > not been restarted between backups. It data transfer over the network is > the bottleneck, you will have most benefit from the former (less changes, > less transfers). The latter only speeds up the backup due to less reads (of > unchanged data) from disk. > > best regards, Arjen > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 00:06:19 +1000 > From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> > To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's > Message-ID: <90b0f7df-ca15-f9cd-b76a-0f8f26e24917@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > > On 10/04/2021 11:43 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote: > > Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is > deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduces > the writes to the server. > > Ah, I see now, thanks, I didn't understand that part of things. Looking > at the logs of my 2nd backup, I see that stopped VM's had zero bytes > written to the backup server. > > -- > Lindsay > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > pve-user mailing list > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > > > ------------------------------ > > End of pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 > ***************************************** > > -- С уважением, Токовенко Алексей Алексеевич ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 2+ messages in thread
* Re: [PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 2021-04-11 22:43 ` [PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 Oleksii Tokovenko @ 2021-04-13 8:44 ` Piviul 0 siblings, 0 replies; 2+ messages in thread From: Piviul @ 2021-04-13 8:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pve-user Hi Oleksii, if you want to unsuscribe this list please go to https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user; you can found the instructions at the end of the page. Best regards Piviul Il 12/04/21 00:43, Oleksii Tokovenko ha scritto: > unsibscribe > > нд, 11 квіт. 2021 о 13:00 <pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com> пише: > >> Send pve-user mailing list submissions to >> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pve-user-owner@lists.proxmox.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pve-user digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - Requesting >> Criticism/Advice? (Lindsay Mathieson) >> 2. PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson) >> 3. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Arjen) >> 4. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:28:50 +1000 >> From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> >> To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - >> Requesting Criticism/Advice? >> Message-ID: <e92b8b56-e89f-928d-a3c8-7b423e334cf5@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >> >> On 10/04/2021 5:10 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote: >>> Don't expect to be able to backup the PBS container with 4TB to a 2TB >> external drive. >> >> I only passed 2TB through and the actual backup data comes to 1.3TB >> >>> The Datastore of a PSB does not compress much further and Proxmox VE >> Backup will only backup virtual disks and not mountpoints or storages >> passed from host, if I understand correctly. >> >> >> I wondered that. Will be testing. >> >>> I suggest adding a virtual disk of 2TB to the PBS container (and format >> it with ext4) which can be backed up by the Proxmox VE Backup. >> >> >> Certainly a possibility. >> >> >> I also wondered if it was practical to attach an external disk to PBS as >> a Datastore, then detach it. A bit more manual, but doable. >> >> >>> I would also run the PBS container (with virtual disk) on the cluster >> instead on separate hardware which is a single point of failure. The local >> PBS would be then just as reliable as your cluster. >> >> >> I want to keep the storage separate from the cluster, in that regard the >> local storage is a single point of failure, hence the need for offsite >> storage as well :) >> >> >>> Regarding safeness: I suggest doing a automated disaster recovery every >> week to make sure it works as expected. Or at least partially, like >> restoring the PBS from an external drive. >> >> >> I'll definitely be testing restore options to check that it works. >> >>> Regarding practicality: I would have a remote PBS sync with your local >> PBS instead of moving physical disks (but you mentioned before that that >> was not really possible). >> >> >> Alas :( >> >> >> Perhaps I could do a backup on site, then physically move it offsite and >> attach it to a offsite PBS server and then sync it remotely - >> incremental backups over the net would be doable. >> >> >> nb. Our NAS died, hence my increased investigation of this :) Definitely >> want to go with a more open and targeted solution this time, the NAS was >> a good appliance, but inflexible. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -- >> Lindsay >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:36:23 +1000 >> From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> >> To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >> Subject: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's >> Message-ID: <ddef627d-5c5f-1358-4a9f-196ef5868e6e@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed >> >> I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be >> incrementally backed up? >> >> >> Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's >> >> -- >> Lindsay >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:43:43 +0000 >> From: Arjen <leesteken@protonmail.ch> >> To: Proxmox VE user list <pve-user@lists.proxmox.com> >> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's >> Message-ID: >> >> <yl4Q_yt8NBMZUuS35KwBK-5RtAEv6V0dJTE77Hp8lW3GAxzIAOU2ErfF0CMHI9y8NjUQKF5TBtgSGhQIaE3p5Sy-7ltAFX8NmbZJoSyHVAk=@ >> protonmail.ch> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> On Saturday, April 10th, 2021 at 15:36, Lindsay Mathieson < >> lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be >>> >>> incrementally backed up? >>> >>> Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's >> Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is >> deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduces >> the writes to the server. An administration of changed virtual disk blocks >> is kept for running VMs, which only reduces the reads from VMs that have >> not been restarted between backups. It data transfer over the network is >> the bottleneck, you will have most benefit from the former (less changes, >> less transfers). The latter only speeds up the backup due to less reads (of >> unchanged data) from disk. >> >> best regards, Arjen >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 00:06:19 +1000 >> From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> >> To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's >> Message-ID: <90b0f7df-ca15-f9cd-b76a-0f8f26e24917@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed >> >> On 10/04/2021 11:43 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote: >>> Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is >> deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduces >> the writes to the server. >> >> Ah, I see now, thanks, I didn't understand that part of things. Looking >> at the logs of my 2nd backup, I see that stopped VM's had zero bytes >> written to the backup server. >> >> -- >> Lindsay >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pve-user mailing list >> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 >> ***************************************** >> >> ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 2+ messages in thread
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2021-04-11 22:43 ` [PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 Oleksii Tokovenko
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