* [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested @ 2023-08-02 7:31 Joseph John 2023-08-02 7:37 ` Aaron Lauterer 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Joseph John @ 2023-08-02 7:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Proxmox VE user list Dear All, Good morning We are going to have ProxMox 8 enterprise edition setup, installation is going on. Earlier we were using ProxMox 6.X Community Edition, this is a separate unit which we were using . Now once the enterprise edition is up, we plan to move all the VM instance which were on the old 6.X CE to the separate ProxMox 8 enterprise edition I am planning to move the old vm form the CE (6.X) to ProxMox 8 (Enterprise Edition) in the following way - Take backup of the VM at CE using the backup option - scp/rsync the backup files to the Prox Mox 8 Enterprise version - Use the restore option from the new server to restore the image Like to get advice, if the above mentioned steps is apt when you are going to move from one of the older CE edition [6.X] to the latest enterprise edition Thanks Joseph John ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested 2023-08-02 7:31 [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested Joseph John @ 2023-08-02 7:37 ` Aaron Lauterer 2023-08-03 9:19 ` Joseph John 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Aaron Lauterer @ 2023-08-02 7:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Proxmox VE user list, Joseph John That sounds like a reasonable plan. If you have a network share that you want to utilize for the backups later on (never store them on the same machine, 3-2-1 backup strategy and such ;) ) you could already configure it on the old Proxmox VE server. That way, you don't have to manually move the backup files over. Since you are decommissioning the old server, there is no risk of running into issues of two different Proxmox VE clusters (or separate single nodes), accessing the exact same storage. Under normal situations, you don't want to give two Proxmox VE clusters access to the same storage, as you might run into VMID conflicts. Cheers, Aaron On 8/2/23 09:31, Joseph John wrote: > Dear All, > Good morning > We are going to have ProxMox 8 enterprise edition setup, installation is > going on. > > Earlier we were using ProxMox 6.X Community Edition, this is a separate > unit which we were using . Now once the enterprise edition is up, we plan > to move all the VM instance which were on the old 6.X CE to the separate > ProxMox 8 enterprise edition > > I am planning to move the old vm form the CE (6.X) to ProxMox 8 (Enterprise > Edition) in the following way > > - Take backup of the VM at CE using the backup option > - scp/rsync the backup files to the Prox Mox 8 Enterprise version > - Use the restore option from the new server to restore the image > > > Like to get advice, if the above mentioned steps is apt when you are going > to move from one of the older CE edition [6.X] to the latest enterprise > edition > > Thanks > Joseph John > _______________________________________________ > pve-user mailing list > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested 2023-08-02 7:37 ` Aaron Lauterer @ 2023-08-03 9:19 ` Joseph John 2023-08-03 15:08 ` Peppo Brambilla 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Joseph John @ 2023-08-03 9:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Aaron Lauterer; +Cc: Proxmox VE user list Hi Thanks. The backup option for some reason not completing successfully from the log files cat /var/lib/vz/dump/vzdump-qemu-109-2023_08_02-12_34_08.log 2023-08-02 12:42:10 ERROR: vma_queue_write: write error - Broken pipe 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: aborting backup job 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: stopping kvm after backup task 2023-08-02 12:42:13 ERROR: Backup of VM 109 failed - vma_queue_write: write error - Broken pipe the GUI /Web way of taking backup not working I have to find another way of taking the image and putting it on the new setup , the present one storage is based on the ceph storage and the vm are in the ceph pook I am thinking a way in which I can try to take to VM image from the ceph pool and move it to the other new pve instance Guidance requested for getting the vm images to new proxmox Thanks Joseph John On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:37 AM Aaron Lauterer <a.lauterer@proxmox.com> wrote: > That sounds like a reasonable plan. > > If you have a network share that you want to utilize for the backups later > on > (never store them on the same machine, 3-2-1 backup strategy and such ;) ) > you > could already configure it on the old Proxmox VE server. That way, you > don't > have to manually move the backup files over. Since you are decommissioning > the > old server, there is no risk of running into issues of two different > Proxmox VE > clusters (or separate single nodes), accessing the exact same storage. > > Under normal situations, you don't want to give two Proxmox VE clusters > access > to the same storage, as you might run into VMID conflicts. > > Cheers, > Aaron > > On 8/2/23 09:31, Joseph John wrote: > > Dear All, > > Good morning > > We are going to have ProxMox 8 enterprise edition setup, installation is > > going on. > > > > Earlier we were using ProxMox 6.X Community Edition, this is a separate > > unit which we were using . Now once the enterprise edition is up, we plan > > to move all the VM instance which were on the old 6.X CE to the > separate > > ProxMox 8 enterprise edition > > > > I am planning to move the old vm form the CE (6.X) to ProxMox 8 > (Enterprise > > Edition) in the following way > > > > - Take backup of the VM at CE using the backup option > > - scp/rsync the backup files to the Prox Mox 8 Enterprise version > > - Use the restore option from the new server to restore the image > > > > > > Like to get advice, if the above mentioned steps is apt when you are > going > > to move from one of the older CE edition [6.X] to the latest enterprise > > edition > > > > Thanks > > Joseph John > > _______________________________________________ > > pve-user mailing list > > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > > > > > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested 2023-08-03 9:19 ` Joseph John @ 2023-08-03 15:08 ` Peppo Brambilla 2023-08-04 9:06 ` Joseph John 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Peppo Brambilla @ 2023-08-03 15:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pve-user Hi I was using an NFS server connected to the old and new cluster. This should be setup as similar as possible on both cluster. Maybe it's sufficient if they are named the same. Then I proceeded as follows: * move VM's disks to the NFS share * shutdown VM on old cluster * copy VM's config files in /etc/pve/qemu-server/ from old to new server * you should now see the VM on the new server as well * start VM on new server * move disks of VM to ceph on new server (you may want to keep the old disk images) * if the VM runs fine, you can remove the config files on the old cluster and remove the disk images there as well) Cheers -- Peppo On 03.08.23 11:19, Joseph John wrote: > Hi > Thanks. > > The backup option for some reason not completing successfully > from the log files > cat /var/lib/vz/dump/vzdump-qemu-109-2023_08_02-12_34_08.log > 2023-08-02 12:42:10 ERROR: vma_queue_write: write error - Broken pipe > 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: aborting backup job > 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: stopping kvm after backup task > 2023-08-02 12:42:13 ERROR: Backup of VM 109 failed - vma_queue_write: write > error - Broken pipe > > the GUI /Web way of taking backup not working > I have to find another way of taking the image and putting it on the new > setup , the present one storage is based on the ceph storage and the vm are > in the ceph pook > I am thinking a way in which I can try to take to VM image from the ceph > pool and move it to the other new pve instance > > Guidance requested for getting the vm images to new proxmox > > > > Thanks > Joseph John > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:37 AM Aaron Lauterer <a.lauterer@proxmox.com> > wrote: > >> That sounds like a reasonable plan. >> >> If you have a network share that you want to utilize for the backups later >> on >> (never store them on the same machine, 3-2-1 backup strategy and such ;) ) >> you >> could already configure it on the old Proxmox VE server. That way, you >> don't >> have to manually move the backup files over. Since you are decommissioning >> the >> old server, there is no risk of running into issues of two different >> Proxmox VE >> clusters (or separate single nodes), accessing the exact same storage. >> >> Under normal situations, you don't want to give two Proxmox VE clusters >> access >> to the same storage, as you might run into VMID conflicts. >> >> Cheers, >> Aaron >> >> On 8/2/23 09:31, Joseph John wrote: >>> Dear All, >>> Good morning >>> We are going to have ProxMox 8 enterprise edition setup, installation is >>> going on. >>> >>> Earlier we were using ProxMox 6.X Community Edition, this is a separate >>> unit which we were using . Now once the enterprise edition is up, we plan >>> to move all the VM instance which were on the old 6.X CE to the >> separate >>> ProxMox 8 enterprise edition >>> >>> I am planning to move the old vm form the CE (6.X) to ProxMox 8 >> (Enterprise >>> Edition) in the following way >>> >>> - Take backup of the VM at CE using the backup option >>> - scp/rsync the backup files to the Prox Mox 8 Enterprise version >>> - Use the restore option from the new server to restore the image >>> >>> >>> Like to get advice, if the above mentioned steps is apt when you are >> going >>> to move from one of the older CE edition [6.X] to the latest enterprise >>> edition >>> >>> Thanks >>> Joseph John >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pve-user mailing list >>> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >>> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user >>> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > pve-user mailing list > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user -- Universität Bern Phil.-nat. Fakultät Institut für Informatik Dr. Peppo Brambilla Systemadministrator Neubrückstrasse 10 3012 Bern Schweiz Telefon +41 31 684 33 10 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested 2023-08-03 15:08 ` Peppo Brambilla @ 2023-08-04 9:06 ` Joseph John 2023-08-04 9:14 ` Peppo Brambilla 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Joseph John @ 2023-08-04 9:06 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Proxmox VE user list Hi , Thanks for the advice I tried first with a CIFS share , checked by accessing it from other machines . created CIFS share (Left hand side of menu, Data Center, Storage) , Now when I go to the VM , backup option , and click backup I can only see the local storage, I am not able to see the CIFS share which I created Similarly I did with NFS server and shared directory , checked it by accessing it from other hosts. Created NFS share (Left hand side of menu, Data Center, Storage). This also when I go the the VM, backup option and click back I can only see the local storage , not the NFS or the CIFS storage which we created earlier . The prox mox version is 6.3-3. But when I give a df-h , I get the results oot@server-1:~# df -h Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on udev 378G 0 378G 0% /dev tmpfs 76G 13M 76G 1% /run /dev/mapper/pve-root 29G 6.2G 22G 23% / tmpfs 378G 69M 378G 1% /dev/shm tmpfs 5.0M 0 5.0M 0% /run/lock tmpfs 378G 0 378G 0% /sys/fs/cgroup /dev/sdb2 511M 312K 511M 1% /boot/efi /dev/fuse 30M 72K 30M 1% /etc/pve *//10.115.129.160/proxmox <http://10.115.129.160/proxmox> 1.0T 359G 666G 36% /mnt/pve/backup10.115.129.169:/home/itsupport/nfsshare 1017G 14G 955G 2% /mnt/pve/nfsbackup* tmpfs 76G 0 76G 0% /run/user/0 So from the df -h , we can see the CIFS and NFS, but through the web interfaces, backup option do not show them in the drop down menu. I am thinking in this situation, to make use command line and run the backup so that I can specify the location (cifs or nfs share) to which I can copy the disk image I will be posting another thread on requesting on how to use command line to take backup of VM images Thanks Joseph John On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 7:14 PM Peppo Brambilla <peppo.brambilla@unibe.ch> wrote: > Hi > > I was using an NFS server connected to the old and new cluster. This > should be setup as similar as possible on both cluster. Maybe it's > sufficient if they are named the same. > Then I proceeded as follows: > > * move VM's disks to the NFS share > * shutdown VM on old cluster > * copy VM's config files in /etc/pve/qemu-server/ from old to new server > * you should now see the VM on the new server as well > * start VM on new server > * move disks of VM to ceph on new server (you may want to keep the old > disk images) > * if the VM runs fine, you can remove the config files on the old > cluster and remove the disk images there as well) > > Cheers -- Peppo > > > On 03.08.23 11:19, Joseph John wrote: > > Hi > > Thanks. > > > > The backup option for some reason not completing successfully > > from the log files > > cat /var/lib/vz/dump/vzdump-qemu-109-2023_08_02-12_34_08.log > > 2023-08-02 12:42:10 ERROR: vma_queue_write: write error - Broken pipe > > 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: aborting backup job > > 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: stopping kvm after backup task > > 2023-08-02 12:42:13 ERROR: Backup of VM 109 failed - vma_queue_write: > write > > error - Broken pipe > > > > the GUI /Web way of taking backup not working > > I have to find another way of taking the image and putting it on the new > > setup , the present one storage is based on the ceph storage and the vm > are > > in the ceph pook > > I am thinking a way in which I can try to take to VM image from the ceph > > pool and move it to the other new pve instance > > > > Guidance requested for getting the vm images to new proxmox > > > > > > > > Thanks > > Joseph John > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:37 AM Aaron Lauterer <a.lauterer@proxmox.com> > > wrote: > > > >> That sounds like a reasonable plan. > >> > >> If you have a network share that you want to utilize for the backups > later > >> on > >> (never store them on the same machine, 3-2-1 backup strategy and such > ;) ) > >> you > >> could already configure it on the old Proxmox VE server. That way, you > >> don't > >> have to manually move the backup files over. Since you are > decommissioning > >> the > >> old server, there is no risk of running into issues of two different > >> Proxmox VE > >> clusters (or separate single nodes), accessing the exact same storage. > >> > >> Under normal situations, you don't want to give two Proxmox VE clusters > >> access > >> to the same storage, as you might run into VMID conflicts. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Aaron > >> > >> On 8/2/23 09:31, Joseph John wrote: > >>> Dear All, > >>> Good morning > >>> We are going to have ProxMox 8 enterprise edition setup, installation > is > >>> going on. > >>> > >>> Earlier we were using ProxMox 6.X Community Edition, this is a > separate > >>> unit which we were using . Now once the enterprise edition is up, we > plan > >>> to move all the VM instance which were on the old 6.X CE to the > >> separate > >>> ProxMox 8 enterprise edition > >>> > >>> I am planning to move the old vm form the CE (6.X) to ProxMox 8 > >> (Enterprise > >>> Edition) in the following way > >>> > >>> - Take backup of the VM at CE using the backup option > >>> - scp/rsync the backup files to the Prox Mox 8 Enterprise > version > >>> - Use the restore option from the new server to restore the image > >>> > >>> > >>> Like to get advice, if the above mentioned steps is apt when you are > >> going > >>> to move from one of the older CE edition [6.X] to the latest enterprise > >>> edition > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> Joseph John > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> pve-user mailing list > >>> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > >>> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > >>> > >>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > pve-user mailing list > > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > > > -- > Universität Bern > Phil.-nat. Fakultät > Institut für Informatik > > Dr. Peppo Brambilla > Systemadministrator > > Neubrückstrasse 10 > 3012 Bern > Schweiz > Telefon +41 31 684 33 10 > > > _______________________________________________ > pve-user mailing list > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested 2023-08-04 9:06 ` Joseph John @ 2023-08-04 9:14 ` Peppo Brambilla 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Peppo Brambilla @ 2023-08-04 9:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: pve-user Hi You have to configured the NFS share to allow "disk image" and "container" as content. On PVE 7.4 you have to configure the 'Content' setting when editing the storage. If you don't set this up correctly, then also the cli won't do the trick. Cheers -- Peppo On 04.08.23 11:06, Joseph John wrote: > Hi , > Thanks for the advice > I tried first with a CIFS share , checked by accessing it from other > machines . created CIFS share (Left hand side of menu, Data Center, > Storage) , > Now when I go to the VM , backup option , and click backup I can only see > the local storage, I am not able to see the CIFS share which I created > > Similarly I did with NFS server and shared directory , checked it by > accessing it from other hosts. Created NFS share (Left hand side of menu, > Data Center, Storage). > This also when I go the the VM, backup option and click back I can only see > the local storage , not the NFS or the CIFS storage which we created > earlier . The prox mox version is 6.3-3. > > But when I give a df-h , I get the results > > oot@server-1:~# df -h > Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on > udev 378G 0 378G 0% /dev > tmpfs 76G 13M 76G 1% /run > /dev/mapper/pve-root 29G 6.2G 22G 23% / > tmpfs 378G 69M 378G 1% /dev/shm > tmpfs 5.0M 0 5.0M 0% /run/lock > tmpfs 378G 0 378G 0% > /sys/fs/cgroup > /dev/sdb2 511M 312K 511M 1% /boot/efi > /dev/fuse 30M 72K 30M 1% /etc/pve > > *//10.115.129.160/proxmox <http://10.115.129.160/proxmox> > 1.0T 359G 666G 36% > /mnt/pve/backup10.115.129.169:/home/itsupport/nfsshare 1017G 14G 955G > 2% /mnt/pve/nfsbackup* > tmpfs 76G 0 76G 0% /run/user/0 > > > So from the df -h , we can see the CIFS and NFS, but through the web > interfaces, backup option do not show them in the drop down menu. > I am thinking in this situation, to make use command line and run the > backup so that I can specify the location (cifs or nfs share) to which I > can copy the disk image > I will be posting another thread on requesting on how to use command line > to take backup of VM images > > > > Thanks > Joseph John > > > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 7:14 PM Peppo Brambilla <peppo.brambilla@unibe.ch> > wrote: > >> Hi >> >> I was using an NFS server connected to the old and new cluster. This >> should be setup as similar as possible on both cluster. Maybe it's >> sufficient if they are named the same. >> Then I proceeded as follows: >> >> * move VM's disks to the NFS share >> * shutdown VM on old cluster >> * copy VM's config files in /etc/pve/qemu-server/ from old to new server >> * you should now see the VM on the new server as well >> * start VM on new server >> * move disks of VM to ceph on new server (you may want to keep the old >> disk images) >> * if the VM runs fine, you can remove the config files on the old >> cluster and remove the disk images there as well) >> >> Cheers -- Peppo >> >> >> On 03.08.23 11:19, Joseph John wrote: >>> Hi >>> Thanks. >>> >>> The backup option for some reason not completing successfully >>> from the log files >>> cat /var/lib/vz/dump/vzdump-qemu-109-2023_08_02-12_34_08.log >>> 2023-08-02 12:42:10 ERROR: vma_queue_write: write error - Broken pipe >>> 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: aborting backup job >>> 2023-08-02 12:42:10 INFO: stopping kvm after backup task >>> 2023-08-02 12:42:13 ERROR: Backup of VM 109 failed - vma_queue_write: >> write >>> error - Broken pipe >>> >>> the GUI /Web way of taking backup not working >>> I have to find another way of taking the image and putting it on the new >>> setup , the present one storage is based on the ceph storage and the vm >> are >>> in the ceph pook >>> I am thinking a way in which I can try to take to VM image from the ceph >>> pool and move it to the other new pve instance >>> >>> Guidance requested for getting the vm images to new proxmox >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> Joseph John >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 11:37 AM Aaron Lauterer <a.lauterer@proxmox.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> That sounds like a reasonable plan. >>>> >>>> If you have a network share that you want to utilize for the backups >> later >>>> on >>>> (never store them on the same machine, 3-2-1 backup strategy and such >> ;) ) >>>> you >>>> could already configure it on the old Proxmox VE server. That way, you >>>> don't >>>> have to manually move the backup files over. Since you are >> decommissioning >>>> the >>>> old server, there is no risk of running into issues of two different >>>> Proxmox VE >>>> clusters (or separate single nodes), accessing the exact same storage. >>>> >>>> Under normal situations, you don't want to give two Proxmox VE clusters >>>> access >>>> to the same storage, as you might run into VMID conflicts. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Aaron >>>> >>>> On 8/2/23 09:31, Joseph John wrote: >>>>> Dear All, >>>>> Good morning >>>>> We are going to have ProxMox 8 enterprise edition setup, installation >> is >>>>> going on. >>>>> >>>>> Earlier we were using ProxMox 6.X Community Edition, this is a >> separate >>>>> unit which we were using . Now once the enterprise edition is up, we >> plan >>>>> to move all the VM instance which were on the old 6.X CE to the >>>> separate >>>>> ProxMox 8 enterprise edition >>>>> >>>>> I am planning to move the old vm form the CE (6.X) to ProxMox 8 >>>> (Enterprise >>>>> Edition) in the following way >>>>> >>>>> - Take backup of the VM at CE using the backup option >>>>> - scp/rsync the backup files to the Prox Mox 8 Enterprise >> version >>>>> - Use the restore option from the new server to restore the image >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Like to get advice, if the above mentioned steps is apt when you are >>>> going >>>>> to move from one of the older CE edition [6.X] to the latest enterprise >>>>> edition >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> Joseph John >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pve-user mailing list >>>>> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >>>>> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pve-user mailing list >>> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >>> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user >> >> -- >> Universität Bern >> Phil.-nat. Fakultät >> Institut für Informatik >> >> Dr. Peppo Brambilla >> Systemadministrator >> >> Neubrückstrasse 10 >> 3012 Bern >> Schweiz >> Telefon +41 31 684 33 10 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pve-user mailing list >> pve-user@lists.proxmox.com >> https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user >> > _______________________________________________ > pve-user mailing list > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user -- Universität Bern Phil.-nat. Fakultät Institut für Informatik Dr. Peppo Brambilla Systemadministrator Neubrückstrasse 10 3012 Bern Schweiz Telefon +41 31 684 33 10 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2023-08-04 9:15 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed) -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2023-08-02 7:31 [PVE-User] Moving virtual machine from CE 6.X to latest enterprise edition, advice requested Joseph John 2023-08-02 7:37 ` Aaron Lauterer 2023-08-03 9:19 ` Joseph John 2023-08-03 15:08 ` Peppo Brambilla 2023-08-04 9:06 ` Joseph John 2023-08-04 9:14 ` Peppo Brambilla
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