From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (firstgate.proxmox.com [212.224.123.68]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by lists.proxmox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 398CA721CE for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:43:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 216E2182AE for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:43:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail-vs1-xe32.google.com (mail-vs1-xe32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS id 8CFF41829A for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2021 00:43:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by mail-vs1-xe32.google.com with SMTP id r4so1560339vsq.6 for ; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 15:43:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=6/MvOGC18kXiQqf7SbNDYIGXuywp5sLN4WFjtkrsOH0=; b=MyrbzC0f5W7x+xjD+Z1/aYN43MFOVWoB4ivYPkB95ph6/5GRHynkZoau/J2etTPhAw 8zUqTRcJtbjVqH+i0J5ZGNApwrvBszp++Ew9qrI7H9nzvUjE7UCjFWSKPHBghehLKRPp p5w9j/fYIgUFuWEW2ZNgqhY42idm0iwvwmFyeVu0WYBmQNlzddnvVhYwoVpSlpR61ThE C0xeJ+y50cr09ZmFMpw3ZBDs2nhu+wZP+T6Zl5ZUt9gq0IZKYxK+xBBPf7d27MxEZDRo PBD1/5ikgHvrLLjRE+e4aGwZ5uQugm8A9gcyo0waM/VvN65zppIp402BggfcJgyZRDfB XfMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=6/MvOGC18kXiQqf7SbNDYIGXuywp5sLN4WFjtkrsOH0=; b=is94U+fug5PxeCqI1G3x8txQtlSLRweb4zGh7k0znY4qw+29lup0bSs2bOCVPVuzfO TW0DI6EhMhc4p2zIINLNxzAPQl1gNdcBauzIG3bQk2vBVPzUvFlTO5cxwaBc65Xh3u08 ofAEkOxTUgGZCBYlLjd4MREZ96Es7M+ZiBEP39CROcNmjptKLNPx6di/8KCjbkG8EAfn B2GGkY5DByo/rGktnLj6A/iWC14pDQVyAoeqjLKo0sNy+ybFzETXq58GrilDvY6ZUKjx FaR+Y0ad3+pd8cgFwuJghF6bxH3uLU4H8K0UaVGY3tnoi3FoEnnwDHT/EgawffYaK2fq 6RcA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533EE+X04PgQQ9VYIcSGoVv8tLXEfQNLHgJb7QjWvnIKadk68viH SLeVgj0tNCx+W6QjRT850hPIRptYPK2pDHmj2XfO7l6CBLdZkQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQ0docLnhIYV55bpNYg4/LBQhAjsyVI/5tUnzgVx1iT6Hi4tQK6bkpnZsoLQ9u3/yYXRfo5jD7I5T1UUrMnCI= X-Received: by 2002:a67:7d02:: with SMTP id y2mr18688035vsc.18.1618181030040; Sun, 11 Apr 2021 15:43:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Oleksii Tokovenko Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2021 01:43:38 +0300 Message-ID: To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider HTML_MESSAGE 0.001 HTML included in message KAM_NUMSUBJECT 0.5 Subject ends in numbers excluding current years RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE -0.0001 Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record T_MIME_MALF 0.01 Malformed MIME: headers in body Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 Subject: Re: [PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 X-BeenThere: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proxmox VE user list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 22:43:59 -0000 unsibscribe =D0=BD=D0=B4, 11 =D0=BA=D0=B2=D1=96=D1=82. 2021 =D0=BE 13:00 =D0=BF=D0=B8=D1=88=D0=B5: > Send pve-user mailing list submissions to > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pve-user-owner@lists.proxmox.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pve-user digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - Requesting > Criticism/Advice? (Lindsay Mathieson) > 2. PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson) > 3. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Arjen) > 4. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:28:50 +1000 > From: Lindsay Mathieson > To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > Subject: Re: [PVE-User] Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - > Requesting Criticism/Advice? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dwindows-1252; format=3Dflowed > > On 10/04/2021 5:10 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote: > > Don't expect to be able to backup the PBS container with 4TB to a 2TB > external drive. > > I only passed 2TB through and the actual backup data comes to 1.3TB > > > The Datastore of a PSB does not compress much further and Proxmox VE > Backup will only backup virtual disks and not mountpoints or storages > passed from host, if I understand correctly. > > > I wondered that. Will be testing. > > > I suggest adding a virtual disk of 2TB to the PBS container (and format > it with ext4) which can be backed up by the Proxmox VE Backup. > > > Certainly a possibility. > > > I also wondered if it was practical to attach an external disk to PBS as > a Datastore, then detach it. A bit more manual, but doable. > > > > I would also run the PBS container (with virtual disk) on the cluster > instead on separate hardware which is a single point of failure. The loca= l > PBS would be then just as reliable as your cluster. > > > I want to keep the storage separate from the cluster, in that regard the > local storage is a single point of failure, hence the need for offsite > storage as well :) > > > > > > Regarding safeness: I suggest doing a automated disaster recovery every > week to make sure it works as expected. Or at least partially, like > restoring the PBS from an external drive. > > > I'll definitely be testing restore options to check that it works. > > > Regarding practicality: I would have a remote PBS sync with your local > PBS instead of moving physical disks (but you mentioned before that that > was not really possible). > > > Alas :( > > > Perhaps I could do a backup on site, then physically move it offsite and > attach it to a offsite PBS server and then sync it remotely - > incremental backups over the net would be doable. > > > nb. Our NAS died, hence my increased investigation of this :) Definitely > want to go with a more open and targeted solution this time, the NAS was > a good appliance, but inflexible. > > Thanks! > > -- > Lindsay > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:36:23 +1000 > From: Lindsay Mathieson > To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > Subject: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8; format=3Dflowed > > I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be > incrementally backed up? > > > Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's > > -- > Lindsay > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:43:43 +0000 > From: Arjen > To: Proxmox VE user list > Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's > Message-ID: > > protonmail.ch> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8 > > On Saturday, April 10th, 2021 at 15:36, Lindsay Mathieson < > lindsay.mathieson@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be > > > > incrementally backed up? > > > > Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's > > Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is > deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduc= es > the writes to the server. An administration of changed virtual disk block= s > is kept for running VMs, which only reduces the reads from VMs that have > not been restarted between backups. It data transfer over the network is > the bottleneck, you will have most benefit from the former (less changes, > less transfers). The latter only speeds up the backup due to less reads (= of > unchanged data) from disk. > > best regards, Arjen > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 00:06:19 +1000 > From: Lindsay Mathieson > To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's > Message-ID: <90b0f7df-ca15-f9cd-b76a-0f8f26e24917@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dwindows-1252; format=3Dflowed > > On 10/04/2021 11:43 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote: > > Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is > deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduc= es > the writes to the server. > > Ah, I see now, thanks, I didn't understand that part of things. Looking > at the logs of my 2nd backup, I see that stopped VM's had zero bytes > written to the backup server. > > -- > Lindsay > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > pve-user mailing list > pve-user@lists.proxmox.com > https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user > > > ------------------------------ > > End of pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12 > ***************************************** > > --=20 =D0=A1 =D1=83=D0=B2=D0=B0=D0=B6=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=B8=D0=B5=D0=BC, =D0=A2=D0=BE=D0=BA=D0=BE=D0=B2=D0=B5=D0=BD=D0=BA=D0=BE =D0=90=D0=BB=D0=B5= =D0=BA=D1=81=D0=B5=D0=B9 =D0=90=D0=BB=D0=B5=D0=BA=D1=81=D0=B5=D0=B5=D0=B2= =D0=B8=D1=87