From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (firstgate.proxmox.com [212.224.123.68]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.proxmox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5240861D21 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:15:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 4936622D41 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:15:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from proxmox-new.maurer-it.com (proxmox-new.maurer-it.com [212.186.127.180]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS id 72A0C22D37 for ; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from proxmox-new.maurer-it.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by proxmox-new.maurer-it.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 3AF9F43143; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:15:04 +0200 (CEST) To: Proxmox VE user list , Roland , Dietmar Maurer , martin@proxmox.com References: <29674be5-026b-0a89-29ba-3951a99048b1@web.de> <1935605059.460.1594382980972@webmail.proxmox.com> <147b5bcd-ca6d-dd89-7389-d9a0e5de4726@web.de> <89ad8a6e-4d67-4782-9c0c-e403f7bde090@proxmox.com> <883f66d0-cee9-fa5b-e914-fb8cc63bb5f9@web.de> From: Thomas Lamprecht Message-ID: <8433ecf2-0a9e-6a2f-2c5e-08a2d6967190@proxmox.com> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:15:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <883f66d0-cee9-fa5b-e914-fb8cc63bb5f9@web.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL 0.000 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address KAM_DMARC_STATUS 0.01 Test Rule for DKIM or SPF Failure with Strict Alignment RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED -2.3 Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, medium trust SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record URIBL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [proxmox.com, veeam.com, vmware.com] Subject: Re: [PVE-User] Proxmox Backup Server (beta) X-BeenThere: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proxmox VE user list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:15:05 -0000 On 10.07.20 16:06, Roland wrote: > i think there may be a misunderstanding here or i was not clear enough > to express what i meant. >=20 > i guess in terms of backup storage,=C2=A0 pbs is doing similar to what > borgbackup does - so indeed that IS i/o and storage effient , but that > refers to the backup target side. >=20 > but what about the backup source? >=20 > I was referring to VMware cbt as that is a means of avoiding I/O on the= > VM storage, i.e. the backup source. >=20 > afaik, proxmox/kvm does not (yet) have something like that !? Proxmox Backup Server and Proxmox VE supports tracking what changed with dirty-bitmaps, this avoids reading anything from the storage and sending anything over the network that has not changed. >=20 > I you have lot's of terabytes of VM disks, each incremental backup run > will hog the VMs storage (the same like full backup). >=20 > In VMware, this is adressed with "changed block tracking", as a backup > agent can determine which blocks of a VMs disks have changed between > incremental backups, so it won't need to scan through the whole VMs > disks on each differential/incremental backup run. see above, we effectively support both - deduplication to reduce target storage impact and incremental backups to reduce source storage and network impact. https://pbs.proxmox.com/docs/introduction.html#main-features >=20 > see: > https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1020128 > https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backup/vsphere/changed_block_tracking= =2Ehtml?ver=3D100 >=20 > i don't want to criticize proxmox, i think proxmox is fantastic, i just= > want to know what we get ( and what we don't get). >=20 No worries, no offense taken ;) cheers, Thomas