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Subject: Re: [pve-devel] About PVE Backup Integration Guide
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From: Prashant Patil <Prashant.Gamepatil@veritas.com>
To: Fiona Ebner <f.ebner@proxmox.com>, Proxmox VE development discussion
<pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>, Thomas Lamprecht <t.lamprecht@proxmox.com>
CC: Anuradha Joshi <Anuradha.Joshi@veritas.com>, Sudhir Subbarao
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<Jason.vonEberstein@veritas.com>
Subject: RE: [pve-devel] About PVE Backup Integration Guide
Thread-Topic: [pve-devel] About PVE Backup Integration Guide
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We have tried the steps mentioned here to create copy-before-write snapshot=
- https://www.mail-archive.com/qemu-devel@nongnu.org/msg876056.html
However, one of the commands 'blockdev-replace' fails with below error:
{"error": {"class": "CommandNotFound", "desc": "The command blockdev-replac=
e has not been found"}}
Is the command available in any specific qemu version? Is there any other c=
ommand that we should be using instead if blockdev-replace?
qemu version:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
root@be-proxmox1:/dev/pve# /usr/bin/qemu-system-x86_64 --version
QEMU emulator version 9.0.2 (pve-qemu-kvm_9.0.2-4)
pve version:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
root@be-proxmox1:/dev/pve# pveversion -v
proxmox-ve: 8.3.0 (running kernel: 6.8.12-4-pve)
pve-manager: 8.3.0 (running version: 8.3.0/c1689ccb1065a83b)
Thanks
Prashant
-----Original Message-----
From: Prashant Patil <Prashant.Gamepatil@veritas.com>
Sent: 17 March 2025 07:01 PM
To: Fiona Ebner <f.ebner@proxmox.com>; Proxmox VE development discussion <p=
ve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>; Thomas Lamprecht <t.lamprecht@proxmox.com>
Cc: Anuradha Joshi <Anuradha.Joshi@veritas.com>; Sudhir Subbarao <Sudhir.Su=
bbarao@veritas.com>; Jason Voneberstein <Jason.vonEberstein@veritas.com>
Subject: RE: [pve-devel] About PVE Backup Integration Guide
> That sounds like you want to roll your own external solution instead of u=
sing the backup provider API that is currently being developed.
We are happy to integrate with backup provider APIs if they are stable and =
ready for the integration. On this same thread, I had asked few questions a=
bout APIs timelines. Could you please help us to get that info?
> Backups in QEMU do not use explicit snapshots. A copy-before-write filter=
is inserted on top of the source disk in QEMU's block graph.
What is the API to create copy-before-write snapshot of the disk image? And=
does it support all formats and storage devices?
Thanks
Prashant
-----Original Message-----
From: Fiona Ebner <f.ebner@proxmox.com>
Sent: 17 March 2025 04:23 PM
To: Prashant Patil <Prashant.Gamepatil@veritas.com>; Proxmox VE development=
discussion <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>; Thomas Lamprecht <t.lamprecht@pr=
oxmox.com>
Cc: Anuradha Joshi <Anuradha.Joshi@veritas.com>; Sudhir Subbarao <Sudhir.Su=
bbarao@veritas.com>; Jason Voneberstein <Jason.vonEberstein@veritas.com>
Subject: Re: [pve-devel] About PVE Backup Integration Guide
CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. Do not click =
links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the cont=
ent is safe. If you believe this is a phishing email, use the Report to Cyb=
ersecurity icon in Outlook.
Am 17.03.25 um 08:02 schrieb Prashant Patil:
>> The block tracking is ideally done via QEMU, then you don't require any =
special features for the underlying storages.
>
> Yes, we were able to get sector map of disks present on 'Directory' stora=
ge type. However, for other storage types such as lvm, lvm-thin, zfs which =
supports raw disk format, here we could get entire disk as allocated which =
is not the case in real. I could not find much information on this, hence w=
anted to know whether this by-design behaviour or we are missing something?=
Pasting output of qemu-img map below for the 2 GB disk on zfs. Have also t=
ried getting map over ndb but got the same result. Is there anything that w=
e are missing here?
>
> root@be-proxmox1:/dev/pve# qemu-img map -f raw --output=3Djson
> /dev/zvol/zfs1/vm-105-disk-2 [{ "start": 0, "length": 2147483648,
> "depth": 0, "present": true, "zero": false, "data": true,
> "compressed": false, "offset": 0}]
That sounds like you want to roll your own external solution instead of usi=
ng the backup provider API that is currently being developed. With that API=
, you get the images to be backed-up as as NBD exports. For incremental bac=
kup, you can read the dirty bitmap. This can also be done via NBD. Again, t=
hen you don't need to worry about the underlying storage layer at all to su=
pport certain features.
>> certain storage types do not support snapshots. In such cases, what is t=
he recommended way to take backup of the running VM?
>
> As mentioned earlier, we have found few storage devices which does not su=
pport snapshot, but have found that we can take individual disk snapshot th=
rough 'blockdev-snapshot-sync'. If we have to take backup of the VM, then a=
re we supposed to use this command to snapshot all VM disks?
Backups in QEMU do not use explicit snapshots. A copy-before-write filter i=
s inserted on top of the source disk in QEMU's block graph. When new guest =
writes happen during backup, old data is first copied away to a fleecing im=
age (or for regular backup directly to the backup target).
The backup provider API then also inserts a snapshot-access node that is ex=
ported via NBD and allows reading the data from the time of the backup in a=
consistent fashion (hence "snapshot-access", it's a virtual/implicit snaps=
hot).
See also this diagram [0].
> [guest] [NBD export]
> | |
> | root | root
> v file v
> [copy-before-write]<------[snapshot-access]
> | |
> | file | target
> v v
> [active-disk] [temp.qcow2]
Best Regards,
Fiona
[0]: https://www.mail-archive.com/qemu-devel@nongnu.org/msg876056.html
This message was sent by an employee of Arctera.
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