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[108.7.52.138]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 6a1803df08f44-6bb3f8d81e2sm33260986d6.25.2024.07.27.13.36.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 27 Jul 2024 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.20.0.1.32\)) Subject: Re: [pve-devel] [RFC qemu/storage/qemu-server/container/manager 00/23] backup provider API From: Jonathan Nicklin X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <1137775171.7131.1722093632719@webmail.proxmox.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2024 16:36:14 -0400 Cc: Proxmox VE development discussion Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <1137775171.7131.1722093632719@webmail.proxmox.com> To: Dietmar Maurer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.20.0.1.32) X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL 0.459 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address BAYES_00 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain DMARC_PASS -0.1 DMARC pass policy RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE -0.0001 Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record URIBL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [blockbridge.com] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Jul 2024 22:49:46 +0200 > On Jul 27, 2024, at 11:20 AM, Dietmar Maurer wrote: > >> Would adding support for offloading incremental difference detection >> to the underlying storage be feasible with the API updates? The QEMU >> bitmap strategy works for all storage devices but is far from >> optimal. > > Sorry, but why do you think this is far from optimal? > The biggest issue we see reported related to QEMU bitmaps is persistence. The lack of durability results in unpredictable backup behavior at scale. If a host, rack, or data center loses power, you're in for a full backup cycle. Even if several VMs are powered off for some reason, it can be a nuisance. Several storage solutions can generate the incremental difference bitmaps from durable sources, eliminating the issue. That said, using bitmaps or alternative sources for the incremental differences is slightly orthogonal to the end goal. The real improvement we're hoping for is the ability to eliminate backup traffic on the client. Today, I believe the client is reading the data and pushing it to PBS. In the case of CEPH, wouldn't this involve sourcing data from multiple nodes and then sending it to PBS? Wouldn't it be more efficient for PBS to read it directly from storage? In the case of centralized storage, we'd like to eliminate the client load completely, having PBS ingest increment differences directly from storage without passing through the client. --===============0088925907952590080== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ pve-devel mailing list pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel --===============0088925907952590080==--