From mboxrd@z Thu Jan  1 00:00:00 1970
Return-Path: <pve-devel-bounces@lists.proxmox.com>
Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (firstgate.proxmox.com [212.224.123.68])
	by lore.proxmox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BF331FF17A
	for <inbox@lore.proxmox.com>; Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:22 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 59C5A329F2;
	Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:42 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:30 +0200
To: pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com
References: <mailman.277.1723799872.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
 <173827238.15666.1723819383697@webmail.proxmox.com>
 <mailman.301.1724049474.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
 <mailman.307.1724074682.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
In-Reply-To: <mailman.307.1724074682.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Message-ID: <mailman.322.1724136221.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
List-Id: Proxmox VE development discussion <pve-devel.lists.proxmox.com>
List-Post: <mailto:pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
From: Roland Kammerer via pve-devel <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
Precedence: list
Cc: Roland Kammerer <roland.kammerer@linbit.com>
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
X-BeenThere: pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel>, 
 <mailto:pve-devel-request@lists.proxmox.com?subject=subscribe>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/options/pve-devel>, 
 <mailto:pve-devel-request@lists.proxmox.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.proxmox.com/pipermail/pve-devel/>
Reply-To: Proxmox VE development discussion <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
List-Help: <mailto:pve-devel-request@lists.proxmox.com?subject=help>
Subject: Re: [pve-devel] DRBD integration but without LINSTOR
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3754942629780922638=="
Errors-To: pve-devel-bounces@lists.proxmox.com
Sender: "pve-devel" <pve-devel-bounces@lists.proxmox.com>

--===============3754942629780922638==
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Disposition: inline

Return-Path: <roland.kammerer@linbit.com>
X-Original-To: pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com
Delivered-To: pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com
Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (firstgate.proxmox.com [212.224.123.68])
	(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)
	 key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256)
	(No client certificate requested)
	by lists.proxmox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F56BC548C
	for <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>; Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:41 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 7569A3295A
	for <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>; Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:41 +0200 (CEST)
Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234])
	(using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits)
	 key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256)
	(No client certificate requested)
	by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS
	for <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>; Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:39 +0200 (CEST)
Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-2f3e2f5163dso13371991fa.2
        for <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>; Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:43:39 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=linbit-com.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1724136212; x=1724741012; darn=lists.proxmox.com;
        h=user-agent:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references
         :message-id:subject:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id
         :reply-to;
        bh=LXGmCj4YA104GHydu9BccpbXQzdBiScwsLuRp4vaqLA=;
        b=uLfuyqEU21XNpPWuR9JPWrH7Aksu9AmaezsvGf5QfpNXvT8k1IrNq+Ypjgwx/s6X6b
         BCE5o4yNlcHtcoL/MRFq9KsYYrlIW+QUs0EdI9guh8wkwWoaFJjZdZotYIWYhoYyWtHe
         S5GUbVPs8VSRB/7exqmVPXWyYinow0RebLzIl4lm1y+h9yw0Y3ywFxkqngZGWhcin9Ci
         ldeQ/9PJupgIv/Gy9X43/IA8rwhqs607y+pevlexvnHlYMszi3vG1TC0e5tNMF5e3Jaj
         R/Bl30dsgG9HmjnvUIXPn2D8h3iCwUjzCzGm3Ido7TpzqPnd3DdmKSBLi1u45PjVaUXk
         lZZg==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1724136212; x=1724741012;
        h=user-agent:in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references
         :message-id:subject:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc
         :subject:date:message-id:reply-to;
        bh=LXGmCj4YA104GHydu9BccpbXQzdBiScwsLuRp4vaqLA=;
        b=pvxr4Bc2ripVb5T1B3DC0Glbc8GIINezfnhehKFfwYxaLqXVtSkfeKYjMvEvo+65kL
         yFV53N9oNVFxcWL95mawlURuURNuIsEoGGDQFoYPgzZ2Hg0Bo/h7dYQ9TykL1vB12Xnv
         sGwbeXmi5Xa8zOzVmrqSEMSSIll+MIXFRYSPlUe1X7rzOOseuQBOJVin3sRgKrjO1AKp
         /d3hbubGLuuUg99Ajqaoqrq1AiCnNRuW2aa90cbsg+dbAdWTbc/K3okLnOmYPWff81VD
         K/PQHPo79crNLhueIS3u3Q+HsDzWJYyMgwoofOsvkR4Q9Way8dBTTBASQWIxLJSZnSgU
         QvfA==
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxG6sS5+MjYJj6sxF6QAHYGaMsS+IWCLuRKHfKq5U/DG4aWNOpc
	dNVReFFhaPSH/MdgKaJASYhi3vmHQMLywYlZ/08pVms6ioMrJ8zRbTgTB3429MrEqUiR8M9SOGQ
	NX8Y=
X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGiCbOAuHHL4MPcKIMvIf8XBw2RqjnoHy3i1PayMZ/pzXporlKMm/fICgBlzwKgQ2R0S0yZqg==
X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:1385:b0:530:c1fb:51a1 with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5334078e9fdmr740807e87.17.1724136212339;
        Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (static.57.82.181.135.clients.your-server.de. [135.181.82.57])
        by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 2adb3069b0e04-5330d3b9251sm1675239e87.93.2024.08.19.23.43.31
        for <pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
        (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256);
        Mon, 19 Aug 2024 23:43:31 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2024 08:43:30 +0200
From: Roland Kammerer <roland.kammerer@linbit.com>
To: pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com
Subject: Re: [pve-devel] DRBD integration but without LINSTOR
Message-ID: <ZsQ7Eh-HaegQ4xsg@arm64>
References: <mailman.277.1723799872.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
 <173827238.15666.1723819383697@webmail.proxmox.com>
 <mailman.301.1724049474.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
 <mailman.307.1724074682.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
In-Reply-To: <mailman.307.1724074682.302.pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com>
User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.13 (2024-03-09)
X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results:  0
	BAYES_00                 -1.9 Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1%
	DKIM_SIGNED               0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid
	DKIM_VALID               -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature
	DMARC_PASS               -0.1 DMARC pass policy
	RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE     -0.0001 Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, no trust
	SPF_HELO_NONE           0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record
	SPF_PASS               -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record
	T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE    -0.01 -
	URIBL_BLOCKED           0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked.  See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [ssh.pm,evolix.org]

On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 03:37:43PM +0200, sjanssens via pve-devel wrote:
> I am about to complete my internship at Evolix, during which I worked on a
> project to integrate DRBD into Proxmox. This involved manipulating DRBD
> resources and using basic drbd-utils tools. I have now completed the project
> and uploaded it to Gitea. I am wondering if there is any interest in sharing
> this with the community.
> 
> Here are the repository links:
> 
>  * https://gitea.evolix.org/evolix/pve-drbd (new package)
>  * https://gitea.evolix.org/evolix/pve-manager/src/branch/evolix-drbd
>    (fork of pve-manager)
>  * https://gitea.evolix.org/evolix/pve-docs/src/branch/debian (fork of
>    pve-docs)
>  * https://gitea.evolix.org/evolix/pve-storage (fork of pve-storage)
> 
> I am still working on the repositories (particularly to implement
> gitbuildpackage).
> 
> I am including a part of the README below for you to review if you have
> time:

Hi Samuel,

I did read the mail and gave the code a quick look. This is certainly
impressive, but I still fail to answer myself the most basic question:
Why? What did you actually try to solve that has not already been
solved?

>From what you wrote you know that LINSTOR exists. It works, yes, we have
literally LINSTOR clusters with hundreds of nodes and many thousand DRBD
resources. From what I see you re-invented for example some kind of
"cluster management" in SSH.pm where you ssh around nodes. Why would you
do that if you have a cluster aware SDS solution with a REST API?
Obviously you also had to re-invent writing DRBD res files. That is all
functionality that already exists. Let alone all the other features you
get out of LINSTOR/a full SDS for free, including multiple storage
technologies (all of zfs, lvm, thick and thin), LUKS encryption, storage
placement constraints, automatically converting diskless storage to
local storage, consistent(!) snapshots and so on.

So in summary I don't see the benefit of this compared to existing
software that has seen many man-years of development and that is already
used by a substantial customer and FLOSS user base, but I might overlook
something here.

Some other, general thoughts:

Having support for DRBD8 is nice, but we provide dkms packages for DRBD9
publicly and eventually DRBD9 will be upstream (fingers crossed...), so
I don't see a too convincing advantage here.

What certainly is nice is that you seem to have taken care to implement
a more complete GUI workflow (I did not look into that part). Adding a
"storage" ("definition") via the GUI is certainly missing on our end.
Given that it is only like 5 lines in storage.cfg we all lived with it
so far. When I last looked at it this part of PVE was not that plugin
friendly as the storage API. Everything in the direction of abstracting
that would be a benefit for the whole PVE/plugin ecosystem I think.

Best, rck


--===============3754942629780922638==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________
pve-devel mailing list
pve-devel@lists.proxmox.com
https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-devel

--===============3754942629780922638==--