From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: <devzero@web.de> Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (firstgate.proxmox.com [212.224.123.68]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.proxmox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 768C361D81 for <pve-user@lists.proxmox.com>; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:46:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id 6A1BB234E3 for <pve-user@lists.proxmox.com>; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:46:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mout.web.de (mout.web.de [217.72.192.78]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS id 83B7A234D9 for <pve-user@lists.proxmox.com>; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:46:09 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1594392369; bh=9UH7+KnunclOIOreGqEnnMEw6KfmgQtvtsFsWaNyxe8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=LzT8sl5bQsb40nFpTRNUWUo+5Wnu927AXB5omG0ZnPL/wCpUzrngmSLWicgggLXYR OIJNA4RFrP0S/pWKHTrfXfeuK+wIDFjZ0bKMZz7ApGN5LweKQTyVBWHQfRAbMHJoKV UCwhTsELSKky3CCwo2V/0LudW8SQ3g85NH8+I5Bo= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from Rolands-MacBook-Pro.cybercon.de ([5.147.253.138]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MCol0-1k2fiL0pQ8-008qjR; Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:46:09 +0200 To: Thomas Lamprecht <t.lamprecht@proxmox.com>, Proxmox VE user list <pve-user@lists.proxmox.com>, Dietmar Maurer <dietmar@proxmox.com>, martin@proxmox.com References: <c84ac772-d577-27fd-710c-293d8a4baffe@proxmox.com> <29674be5-026b-0a89-29ba-3951a99048b1@web.de> <1935605059.460.1594382980972@webmail.proxmox.com> <147b5bcd-ca6d-dd89-7389-d9a0e5de4726@web.de> <89ad8a6e-4d67-4782-9c0c-e403f7bde090@proxmox.com> <883f66d0-cee9-fa5b-e914-fb8cc63bb5f9@web.de> <8433ecf2-0a9e-6a2f-2c5e-08a2d6967190@proxmox.com> From: Roland <devzero@web.de> Message-ID: <57e9a9be-0907-d0c8-4ff7-8015c1585584@web.de> Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 16:46:08 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8433ecf2-0a9e-6a2f-2c5e-08a2d6967190@proxmox.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:l8PK9cMozXV7eIefbAvZZ6gGlhajkUJpaMcnVl+JVK+O9ew2ofx 1IarF8+j22fX6Ejhn5iGxeUkv2DILfLYd+Ng+Kk3CIt2eI/jyzXqF/dVXrvCsCdcDTJaII3 +sLmdau+mnQeE4JRwZ+BuAPHk28J3YcJqF4FYgRLAOJ1JLc/GA/OXui7GDVXGjk4xtlhOrj BmlbX1xzv31ToZkPdOtLw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:IPGHlI+brmE=:WpMaF+uGmmNj3+nbF3Lxui eqPJ/7gUXu4FfFg5RsoyBhcyXRe4AbQECLDffDGYR8t/JYXWjQ/Nk3929kcdaOVpT0rWZ+zo+ 81yWf0/crV+IVt09m3NmKKh/itaZv58yyAzfwa9+UO7qwPAmbjFC8olpFs6pIC6UdRygRSn3m Vt+uvzoEQHpLN7M+Ysu3jpWXGKyX220A44CvFtxRqo/PUiNsMzWHBZ/Vq9zlm7k7xDCnCiCUn BppjnZfoZWMQPikMJrXPwsjAOz/kNUiFiIxPc9zFQB7y8+iKiHhtU1Y/r343txVEMsxJ43TPz yni31ABXwnE9e9aUDl45Fw6MOu11NvIbXa/3wcktVx/mJK7D87T3uIKPbVKmvsh4NCR0iYh53 d7LQwoKZWIHJ5005dqRom2LiEMfn1pxupdS0Brb7yDcW4oLhsOfPxsDbw+tWx953Wb3o40JbU CobEAXMCeZMVXGIw9omEEnwGMEJWFPisQmlF85NTpc39BWLg0Nfdr6cLzWtjtQpLmmoxhA0fR uvgnx5sjqo5T5ggkezk2SVuo9CJOlURgj/ttnrCsr4WKPjoSjWO99w6bgivnXSDmpvNJJf7Gc 6HO75nHT76ERd49x+7Aar4lXMj/PcOtao0bHG/U1/6kfMowWwqInWaqWNtvVDbetGY8wc2Qdn 75ALYKQCLHIf/q6z7CRkI4CEYRON+F5mIBytDtk4vQpV9nWkPJGvos1HjaYdF8KBtQuHu6Ll9 d7gviyssLkpDXihUQeZMmbClk5UvTt1ZTrpy7zZsHGR2tG7kRcqQToUuZ+dcAEwdGypOrbJZd xe2s8mUa1d+UJYTPwtx8YOcL2AjVGbSA93mj4At6uA1K1fBPmi9jUSJjS4gNJs3ZkGnLasdj8 c4XTnNg3bNolCe7xqWNarUezDc5ooFqFI8cTkLsyanOtC/AorOrK28lNnhtQhQIuvm9vpZs4z 4phGRp9fXoatGBWAzw//V7HX/NXZ22nGw+Gz9jDHEf56hhoPDhAGYkzkcX/4T8x5eU74t4c/c PlR2I44rI41P8SzfPbFL1/2OHv7YB+iTgsPfbtmxrk7CEaUGpmC1BZLL2sMGA8/jxD+aiXC5K BAhFG+iYExS5Mb6Ach8+0+6WqGcRN593a7Hf3PGawAYVMZbP8U9ngqWcmnNO/fW1aDCSg2rAI iOm/ye6FB5w1CEjc1izSZJxoGL8/GqS2p9BrAPDGOSvthTM3raEZr7I39JuBC9v9ynkMCPBZC Yc67NzZJi9g6ZXbFb X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 AWL 0.001 Adjusted score from AWL reputation of From: address DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature DKIM_VALID_AU -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from author's domain DKIM_VALID_EF -0.1 Message has a valid DKIM or DK signature from envelope-from domain FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW -0.7 Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 -0.001 Average reputation (+2) SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record URIBL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [proxmox.com, veeam.com, vmware.com] Subject: Re: [PVE-User] Proxmox Backup Server (beta) X-BeenThere: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proxmox VE user list <pve-user.lists.proxmox.com> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/options/pve-user>, <mailto:pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.proxmox.com/pipermail/pve-user/> List-Post: <mailto:pve-user@lists.proxmox.com> List-Help: <mailto:pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user>, <mailto:pve-user-request@lists.proxmox.com?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2020 14:46:40 -0000 wo this is great to hear, thanks ! Am 10.07.20 um 16:15 schrieb Thomas Lamprecht: > On 10.07.20 16:06, Roland wrote: >> i think there may be a misunderstanding here or i was not clear enough >> to express what i meant. >> >> i guess in terms of backup storage,=C2=A0 pbs is doing similar to what >> borgbackup does - so indeed that IS i/o and storage effient , but that >> refers to the backup target side. >> >> but what about the backup source? >> >> I was referring to VMware cbt as that is a means of avoiding I/O on the >> VM storage, i.e. the backup source. >> >> afaik, proxmox/kvm does not (yet) have something like that !? > Proxmox Backup Server and Proxmox VE supports tracking what changed with > dirty-bitmaps, this avoids reading anything from the storage and sending > anything over the network that has not changed. > >> I you have lot's of terabytes of VM disks, each incremental backup run >> will hog the VMs storage (the same like full backup). >> >> In VMware, this is adressed with "changed block tracking", as a backup >> agent can determine which blocks of a VMs disks have changed between >> incremental backups, so it won't need to scan through the whole VMs >> disks on each differential/incremental backup run. > see above, we effectively support both - deduplication to reduce target > storage impact and incremental backups to reduce source storage and > network impact. > > https://pbs.proxmox.com/docs/introduction.html#main-features > >> see: >> https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1020128 >> https://helpcenter.veeam.com/docs/backup/vsphere/changed_block_tracking= .html?ver=3D100 >> >> i don't want to criticize proxmox, i think proxmox is fantastic, i just >> want to know what we get ( and what we don't get). >> > No worries, no offense taken ;) > > cheers, > Thomas > >