From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (firstgate.proxmox.com [212.224.123.68]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.proxmox.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D304369582 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:43:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from firstgate.proxmox.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTP id BFF492B037 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:42:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by firstgate.proxmox.com (Proxmox) with ESMTPS id 164602B02B for ; Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:42:53 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1614681766; bh=2Vuobc348liKCAedOAOkZIY/lWg0tebYb3nUccGTeXI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:To:References:From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To; b=RTNk68VM8RGTuGQZkHZ79WjmZcANs+B2bfRDnWNdck6pE+oL9Rc8pcpi+88nLZb/4 wUKpZK6hXz2FPEF8hCXOkNhtSx5F+ES8ND233hDl6A71CyAkUjsot3r6xqFEP/Askb stevyKX2qHTdLEU1xzQVH3AL5KWAXeAi8tByetRE= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.178.31] ([83.135.229.127]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mqs0R-1ldSue0M5Z-00mvEe for ; Tue, 02 Mar 2021 11:37:37 +0100 To: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com References: <82a59e22-1a52-e104-1217-ac904d9223ca@merit.unu.edu> From: Andreas Heinlein Message-ID: <523edd9a-658d-5b49-c16d-3c0f6f973c13@gmx.com> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2021 11:37:36 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/78.0 Thunderbird/78.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <82a59e22-1a52-e104-1217-ac904d9223ca@merit.unu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: de-DE X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:+RtPyki+VBxTVX/cnTKpSO3WahtU9zvExmRD+XLKbffnJDxRmfX 3Pxj1iHTdNmVqKeP4/1HCrNOhFbC8k2Lm1A7bEpgo3vCwEpBRdv2dnaOQf2Qqb/SHOphFAV 0x4qVRlXhxaQxqeLGeLTG1xIcM06kUssQdu6ssLLH8TdN/eYyQc+u8AYufQz6PkTIQbTW2d j0ObyaJzXMHoAAMBVMVuw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:OwDS4KFowGg=:oMTm8Qoj2pss9/AXOMoUEv rUYP3crVAyThPWi2N+dhB6CykQRRNbvMScZ/D4YycTBt+FjEDK5Cn6Sfqlz1wEBQqJi0d1GUD wf4EwhGQZ66VitUGKw1D4mgRDFoAeejWaq4SnmTOwK1vw3UIuh0jh00uSPnRXpuSEOHsbIAVO ogSofh/IedDcrFHlP91AXh+A+j2u1aOJud+hwKI9tcFG4kUJDkse46av2NsDG45bYEZGX000G Mw8VmuA5nG84V6MwSIOsWs1Fow+/lNdFlKPn/2ARX6qhzqQ1W4nYns+AgVvR+bfSD73SZB2ep MckCf4EIU2WFV7hfKwdiE4wRIrvPy8Jri+YVw29zNwu54bYcwqCr1t6oKp15i2VZcPqdbyaBw 1wXljFtYrl5QgtTeL7W5HWwS1ceBDxwHkiseDSki9FimQfJtkdXQSaOASaCHD/3nlUmolpSmk tcF+VO56ADTFx4JQIiEhfpllnubHrLFOmKDFBJVDCXxe9ewYpwhaWOHf81dstA03kdDFMCMLw HSSLWv1QZIV8WglbCGtKzeo/5UBBc6w4fXQjib6Q0FiEzXgrokLmy5iG8bvEFl2zk+TIve+1s Z8fHtQpwKAubUsi90DUnetLKB9W5cTSykGhGapJxSNcXgXacDE6LQW30UkYGBi72BzxDaO3+R 3LQ/G62Y8A60EG2dNWt/A+G9kaT/MSqNU1x/0LmaKjLpiz436NSBUijNnZhGLq4hmyIoxW5jK HWaesl9ik7JVmoccf8z6aIbZooC9fH1tiY/aLHuO3zOmlZXBWpeNoYYA7SkTICkTQaJvZX7Nx 86bb3z2EQhJgUNJ8mzFBlXbLQp+L+BpRnl6zvQjBYyb7gOKIhBCq4HslvuC6xi5fDsW9x8/2L 5Ei4bv+tSt47xOpCN8eA== X-SPAM-LEVEL: Spam detection results: 0 DKIM_SIGNED 0.1 Message has a DKIM or DK signature, not necessarily valid DKIM_VALID -0.1 Message has at least one valid DKIM or DK signature FREEMAIL_FROM 0.001 Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider NICE_REPLY_A -0.001 Looks like a legit reply (A) RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW -0.7 Sender listed at https://www.dnswl.org/, low trust RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2 -0.001 Average reputation (+2) SPF_HELO_NONE 0.001 SPF: HELO does not publish an SPF Record SPF_PASS -0.001 SPF: sender matches SPF record URIBL_BLOCKED 0.001 ADMINISTRATOR NOTICE: The query to URIBL was blocked. See http://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/DnsBlocklists#dnsbl-block for more information. [readthedocs.io] Subject: Re: [PVE-User] pbs incremental backups X-BeenThere: pve-user@lists.proxmox.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Proxmox VE user list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2021 10:43:24 -0000 Hello, this is probably a bit difficult to understand at first, but I will try=20 to explain. Each backup is a full backup, even though only the differences to the=20 last backup are actually backed up. The remaining unchanged block are=20 just being referenced from the last backup. When you delete a previous=20 backup, only those blocks which are not referenced by another backup=20 will actually be deleted. So each backup is independent on its own, and you can delete all=20 previous backups without losing any data. Hope this clears it up a bit. Bye, Andreas Am 02.03.2021 um 11:22 schrieb mj: > Hi, > > Testing PBS backups taken from PVE VMs on ceph rbd now. Very nice,=20 > very quick, very cool. :-) > > We have a question. Something we wonder about. > > In our current backup software, we make weekly full_system backups,=20 > and daily incremental_system backups, each incremental based on the=20 > same full_system backup. So: each daily incremental backup becomes=20 > bigger, until the weekend. Then we make a new full_system backup to=20 > base the next set of incrementals on. > > In PBS I cannot specify if a backup is full or incremental, we assume=20 > this means that automatically the first backup is a full_system=20 > backup, and subsequent backups are incremental. The PBS backup logs=20 > confirm this assumption, saying: "scsi0: dirty-bitmap status: created=20 > new" vs "scsi0: dirty-bitmap status: OK (7.3 GiB of 501.0 GiB dirty)" > > And now the question: At what point in time is a new full_system=20 > backup created, to rebase incremental backups on? > Or is each incremental backup based on the previous incremental? And=20 > if that is the case, how will we ever be able to delete one of the=20 > in-between incrementals, because that would then break to whole chain=20 > of incremental_backup-based-on-incremental_backup...? > > We have read the page=20 > https://qemu.readthedocs.io/en/latest/interop/bitmaps.html but it does = > not seem to answer this. > > Anyone care to share some insight on this logic and how PBS works? > > MJ=20